Rather than get more philosophical (wistful?) than that, I will tell you the facts:
Vineland released two records, detailed below:

Archetype / Unfriendly 7"  (1993 - Land Speed / Matt Label)

Obsidian / Thicket 7"  (1996 - Zero Sum Records)

There were several lineups before I joined in 1994, Jon Fine (ex-Bitch Magnet guitarist) being the mainstay.  I replaced original second guitarist, Bob Bannister (of Fire In The Kitchen and Tono Bungay.)  Over that summer we had Eamon Martin on bass and David Tritt (of Rat At Rat R) playing drums, but when Tritt proved more and more unreliable we lucked into getting ex-Codeine drummer Doug Scharin as a fill in.  Doug ended up being a "fill in" longer than some of our "real" drummers were members.  We toured in November of 1994 and recorded 8 songs in December in Doug's drafty Brooklyn loft.  It was arctic cold. There was no control room and I (the engineer) had to strain to tell what anything might actually sound like through the control room speakers.  Jon's HiWatt blared from 15 feet away.  It was frustrating, but I did a relatively good salvage job when I mixed it 6 months later.  Two songs (Obsidian and Thicket) were released in the spring of 1996.

A later lineup, featuring Kylie Wright on bass and Jerry fuchs (later of Reddy Kilowatt and Turing Machine) on drums, recorded an entire LP of material with Steve Albini in April of 1996.  We toured the country immediately after finishing that and I decided to leave the band. Shortly after that tour, Jon must have done the following interview with the German Tell Music Zine.  I didn't find this interview until 4 years after it was done (probably May 1996) and I was quite surprised to see that he didn't totally dis me for quitting.  Jon is a good friend, though, and we still keep in touch.
 

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Jon Fine interview...  May 1996

Tell Music: When Bitch Magnet broke up, did you instantly decide to form Vineland?

Jon Fine: There was a pretty substantial timelag between BM breaking up and Vineland forming. The last Bitch Magnet show was December 30, 1990; the first Mothra show was in September, 1992 (with Sleepyhead and Versus, at Sideshows by the Seashore in NYC if you're keeping track). Mothra was a pre-Vineland band with the personnel of the first single - essentially the same band, but to me Mothra refers to a really early period and songs I'd mostly prefer never to think about again. The first show as Vineland was in April '93. Until I wrote that, I had the sense there was an enormous gap between bands; a few years down the line, it doesn't seem like so much. Whatever. When Bitch Magnet broke up, I knew that I wanted to keep playing music. I also knew that I would never find a singer I could deal with, and since I was going to be such an asshole about it, the only fair thing to do was to sing myself. I also wanted a two-guitar band. It took me a very long time to get a grip on the Vineland aesthetic. I think it started to come together with some songs I wrote in the late summer of '93-"Amicus Brief" in particular. It's still an ongoing process, and now since we're going to a trio format, we'll have to work with it some more. But as for the specific happenings...it was just a matter of trying to convince people to play with me, and essentially teaching myself how to write and sing songs.
 

Tell Music: Isn't it funny that all Bitch Magnet members after the split formed bands that were at least roughly not very much unlike what BM did (Orestes was in Sea of Pearls, wasn't he?) (althouch picking up different elements)? Are you still in contact with Sooyoung and Orestes? What do you think about the music they re playing now?

Jon Fine: I've only heard one Sea of Pearls song, so I kind of can't say. Orestes was never really in that band, though. He only played on one album of theirs (the second, I think), and he's currently in a decidedly non-Bitch Magnet-esque band called Walt Mink. They play in NYC every few months, and I try to go see them, but I'd be lying if I said I was a fan of theirs (besides the drummer, that is). I just talked to Sooyoung last week. I think I'm the only person alive who prefers Seam live to the records, but, again, I don't find Seam to be terribly much like Bitch Magnet.
 

Tell Music: You've just recorded the first Vineland album with Steve Albini. How is working with him nowadays compared to 88?

Jon Fine: In '88 he was just remixing, so his involvement was not as extensive. But of the three times I recorded with him, this was by far the best. As his articles hint, I didn't get along with him particularly well the other times. He does great engineering work, though - I can't imagine anyone disputing that - and he has a good sense of how to keep the whole thing moving along.
 

Tell Music: I see odd rhythms as an important element of Vineland, but mostly it's only the drums that are responsible for them. In how far do you as the core of Vineland tell the drummers what to play?

Jon Fine: I'm a little confused by this, because except in really rare instances, we're all playing the same rhythm in Vineland. I do not tell drummers what to play, unless they're new to the band and there's some part some other drummer played that seems essential to the song. I don't understand why drummers get so much crap. They are absolutely the one thing that makes or breaks a band, especially an aggressive one. They have to process and perform music in a much more complicated and precise way than anyone else in the band. I don't tell drummers what to play, because I'm not a drummer, and it's a really arrogant songwriter that assumes a non-drummer can think of parts better than a real drummer. You want to build any sort of heavy music up from the drums, anyway, and a drummer understands the depths of their instrument best.

Tell Music: Vineland has seen many lineup-changes. Would you say they are mostly a result of fate (whatever that is) or of your personality? Are you difficult to work with?

Jon Fine: Alright, alright, I admit it: I'm an asshole. I really don't know the answer to this one. I can say in early versions of Vineland, I'd ended up with people who seemed right at the time, or were great pals, but turned out to be unsuited for what I had in mind, once it developed. Since then, it's been a mixed bag: drugs, people going to school, people leaving town, people just getting sick of it.
 

Tell Music: What's the musical background of the other bandmembers (by the way, who's in the band right now? In your letter you wrote that the rhythmsection noted for the album is not a part of the band?)

Jon Fine: Whoa-the rhythm section on the _single_ is not in the band. The rhythm section on the album is the current Vineland rhythm section. Vineland: me, Jerome Fuchs on drums, and Kylie Wright on bass. Fred Weaver played guitar on the album and on our April tour, but he's since left the band. Jerome used to be in a band called the Martians, and he'll be doing shows this summer with Pitchblende. Kylie was in bands called Ugly Head and Staplegun. Fred was in Blowout Kit, and Fred and Jerry are currently working on a new project called Reddy Kilowatt. Fred's also in a band called Worf, who are perhaps best described by the reviews on their World Wide Web page.

Tell Music: To a friend of mine, I've described Vineland as a mixture between classical ballet (flowing elegance) and bodybuilding (power).What do you think about that comparison?

Jon Fine: As descriptions go, it's a little over the top, but it's pretty fucking flattering. I may not express it in those terms, but finding beauty in the midst of a loud-as-fuck rock band has been a big part, in my mind, of what Vineland's about.
 

Tell Music: What is more important to you: Intense or beauty?

Jon Fine: If I had to choose, I'd choose intense. But I wouldn't want to be in a band that was only intense or only "pretty."
 

Tell Music: What is a Vineland show like? Do you headbang on stage?

Jon Fine: Vineland shows are distinguished by loudness and no audience members.
 

Tell Music: How long does it take until a Vineland song is finished? How do you work (do you write the complete stuff?)

Jon Fine: It takes forever. I work slowly and painfully, frequently procrastrinating (I'm supposed to be writing right now, in fact). I tend to have a pretty set draft of the song that I bring in to practice, which the band then picks apart and puts back together.
 

Tell Music: Have you already found a label for the album?

Jon Fine: No. Any suggestions?
 

Tell Music: What about Zero Sum? Will there be any other releases?

Jon Fine: I was thinking Zero Sum would release the Vineland album, but I'm so in debt that it's not currently possible. That may change by the end of the year.
 

Tell Music: Do you think Vineland would be more successful if you lived in Chicago and were listened to in the same context as the momentary popular bands coming from there?

Jon Fine: I don't think that NYC is the best city for a banda like us, but, to be truthful, I don't know what would be. I'd like to think we tend to draw fairly well in Chicago, assuming you discount our most recent shows there. I don't see Vineland fitting in to anything coming out of Chicago right now, or in any particular "scene." I think this is a good thing. But I remember feeling the same way about Bitch Magnet, and there were a bunch of bands across the country we (or at least I) felt some affinity with-Bastro, Slint, Honor Role. I have a hard time thinking of such bands now. Most of the ones I felt Vineland was on the same page with, like Codeine, Don Caballero, Rodan, and Pitchblende-have broken up, or are almost completely inactive.
 

Tell Music: What is New York like these days?'Which are the new bands to check out? (by the way, do you know if the rumor that Codeine broke up is true?)

Jon Fine: It's not a rumor that Codeine has broken up, although, like every other fucking band in the world, they'll hem and haw and mumble something about taking an extended hiatus rather than come out and say "we're broken up."New York is generally my favorite place in the world, but it's not a very good place musically right now. There was a band called Wider that broke up about a year and a half ago, that I felt were one of the most important bands of the nineties, but they broke up (two of 'em are in Chavez, who I'm much less fond of). Most of the stuff here I'd recommend is not-terribly-rocking, like Cat Power. As with most of the East Coast, the bigger indie bands here are the kind of indie pop that makes me want to kill somebody. No matter what anyone tells you, Vitapup and Saturnine totally blow.
 

Tell Music: Which was your most/least pleasant touring experience?

Jon Fine: I really have to think about this one. The most pleasant were probably the earliest Bitch Magnet ones, where a world of music was opening up to me, and it was a real kick to find the few fans in each town. I have a real soft spot for great shows in smaller towns-Morgantown, West Virginia is always great to play. I remember playing a small Northern British town called Hebden Bridge, and talking well into the night with a collection of younger townspeople, people I'd never have met otherwise. I still think fondly of that. Also, in general hooking up with bands that you admire and becoming friends with them. Playing with Slint and Bastro in 1989. The least pleasant was getting all of our gear ripped off in London at the start of Bitch Magnet's final tour, a tour that I knew in advance was going to be our last. Later on that tour, we played a terrible show in Germany somewhere - perhaps Bremen?? - where we had to stop because the PA and my amp was malfunctioning, and I was convinced people wanted to kill us. The best Vineland tour was the one we did with the lineup on the single, back in November 1994. The one we just did was by far the most difficult, for a variety of reasons not really worth going into now.
 

Tell Music: What are you interested in besides music?

Jon Fine: Same things as everyone: writing, movies, art. I read obsessively, and write quite a bit as well. I've been reading fair amount of poetry lately, mostly Denis Johnson (who's probably my favorite living writer)
 

Tell Music: What do you know about German music? Anything you like?

Jon Fine: I think the most recent German album I have is Shrei Doch! by Blut und Eisen. Steve Immerwahr of Codeine was always trying to convince everyone that the Richies were amazing, but we all thought he was nuts. As you may know, there's been an enormous resurgence of American interest in the artier German bands of the 70's -Can, Neu, Faust, Cluster, etc. etc. etc. I like most of it, particularly Faust, but I really love the early Guru Guru records. Their first, "UFO", is one of the better records I heard last year.
 

Tell Music: Do you read fanzines? Which ones do you like?

Jon Fine: Back in the late 80's and early nineties, there were a bunch of really outstanding music-related fanzines over here - Conflict, Forced Exposure, Butt Rag, On Site, Too Fun Too Huge...all excellently written, funny as hell, and absolutely authoritative about the music they were writing about. There is nothing like that today Stateside. Most fanzine writers here just want to jack-off about their lives, and suck up to all of the other fanzine geeks: they're afraid to express a hard-edged, honest opinion. Or they don't write about music. This is an enormous bummer.